ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
March 07, 2018 07:41PM
We were just notified by Garmin that ActiveCaptain data will be discontinued on May 23, 2018.

Please see our announcement here: [support.polarnavy.com]

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Polar Navy Support
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
March 09, 2018 08:28PM
That is *not* what you were told. Please see my full response in the announcements section as well.
Re: ActiveCaptain discontinuation
March 09, 2018 08:24PM
So, I read the announcement that you received from Garmin, in it's entirety.

Couching that announcement as you have done here is disingenuous.

Your access to the data has *not* been terminated. Instead, the API is changing and you have been told that the current API will be discontinued and that you will need to implement the new API in order to continue to have access. In part, the API changes are required by the GDPR. Gamin has reiterated that the API, developer tools, and ongoing access to the data are all free of charge.

I understand that you have limited time and your ability to keep up with an API change like this is limited. I, and probably many of your customers, would be very understanding if you were to say that it might take some time in order to implement the new API. But telling us that essentially it is out of your hands and all Garmin's fault is specious.

FWIW, other navigation software providers who currently have Active Captain integration have not made similar announcements and, for the most part, are planning to work with Garmin to implement the new API.

Frankly, I prefer to use Polar View over either TimeZero or Coastal Explorer. But Active Captain integration, offline availability, and routine updates are non-negotiable. I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your position on this and work with Garmin to implement the new API to ensure that your customers continue to have access to this valuable resource.
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
March 10, 2018 11:16AM
Please do not post in the announcements section. Please also note that this is a technical support forum, and as such I would prefer to keep it dedicated to technical support issues.

- I am not sure how you would know what was sent to us by Garmin.

- The announcement is correct, and based on the notification we received. Garmin is discontinuing the current ActiveCaptain service on May 23rd. As of right now nothing else is available as a replacement.

- Garmin suggested that a new API may be available on April 1st. That API has not been shown to us yet. In order to see the API we must sign "evaluation agreement" with extremely onerous terms. I am not sure I can post the agreement here, but suffice it to say, it is not a boilerplate NDA. Based on its terms, it is not something I can see us signing to evaluate an API or, frankly, for any reason at all.

- While no information has been given as to what the API may be, the "evaluation agreement" strongly suggests that it will be a binary, opaque module. The agreement states that it will be owned and controlled by Garmin, while 3rd party developers must accept all risks of using such a module and protect Garmin from any potential claims.

There are obvious legal issues related to using a module owned and operated by a 3rd party that provides no visibility to developers of our product.

Aside from that, there is a simple fact that it is highly unlikely to support all the platforms we support, or integrate well (or at all) into our product architecture.

- Lastly, 54 days from potentially giving an evaluation API preview to discontinuing the existing service is not simply "not enough" time, but rather shows blatant disregard for 3rd party developers.

This is all the information I have, described as completely as possible. If new information becomes available, it will be posted here. Until such time, please consider this topic closed.

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Polar Navy Support



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2018 11:35AM by Polar Navy Support.
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
March 31, 2018 03:10PM
Many thanks for the clearly worded announcement regarding your product.

I am bemused at the furor that has occurred and directed at PolarNavy regarding your announcement. Apparently, a number of people feel that PolarNavy was under some obligation or debt or responsibility to present Garmin's notice of termination of the existing agreement in the most positive, friendly, and endorsing language possible, and that by stating clearly and simply what Garmin plans to do and how it will affect the PolarView product has somehow violated some code of conduct that requires one business entity to perform public relations work for another.

Garmin being a multi-billion-dollar operation ought to be expected to handle their own public relations. And there seems to be plenty of others volunteering to give them favorable coverage regarding the abrogation of the existing terms and arrangements for access to Active Captain.

For me, having Active Captain access in PolarView is not important, and I would very much prefer to NOT have to pay for it. If PolarView at some time in the future returns with access to Active Captain under the terms of Garmin's new ownership and new demands, it would be wonderful if you could purchase use of PolarView NS without that feature, and perhaps those who want Active Captain access from PolarView can pay a upgrade fee or annual subscription fee to get it.

I would suggest that a survey of the number of present users of PolarView that would be willing to pay more to have access to Active Captain might be a good method to determine if there is a mandate to work on that feature.

Time will tell if Garmin will be a good steward of the crowd-sourced data of Active Captain.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2018 06:44PM by Jim Hebert.
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
March 31, 2018 09:48PM
Thanks, Jim.

POI data in general is an important asset to a number of users. Maintaining access to Active Captain data and, better yet, adding more/different data sources, would be something we would very much like to do.

As far as current issue is concerned, the agreement that we must accept in order to gain access to API documentation is extremely skewed and risky, in particular for a very small company like Polar Navy, that does not have attorneys on staff or substantial resources to dedicate to legal defense, should the need arise. It's simply too dangerous, given the legal environment we live in.

Should Garmin reconsider, we'd be glad to sign an industry-standard NDA agreement to gain access to API documentation, and see where things go from there.

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Polar Navy Support
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
April 26, 2018 11:53AM
Boy, Garmin really knows how to piss off everybody. I fear they will alienate the Active Captain community to the point that the navigation and hazard information will rapidly become useless. Sorry you are experiencing this, and sorry, too, that the functionality of the app will deteriorate. I would, I suppose, pay some extra to have the information restored to P N, but it’s not going to endear Garmin to me- and my entire nav system is based on their equipment. I will certainly rethink that when replacement time comes around. (Polar Navy is on my backup system, since my Garmin Chartplotter didn’t/doesn’t support AC.) Pretty sure that Garmin does not understand that people are less likely to take the time to participate in the crowdsourcing of information if they are unhappy with the bullying from the corporation, or unable to use the app. I expect that the size of the “crowd” is going to rapidly shrink if they can’t get their act together. Jeff Siegel really needs to attempt to educate them to this, or it’s unlikely that AC will continue to have any utility at all.
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
April 26, 2018 02:02PM
That, unfortunately, is my fear as well.

So far no good news to report, but we shall keep up the hope.

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Polar Navy Support
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
April 28, 2018 12:59AM
I'm not sure what market Garmin wants to be in.
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
September 04, 2018 02:44PM
Would you be willing to allow a 3rd party program to rebuild the poi database? Does the POI database have data other than just AC in it?

I would be willing to contact them and evaluate the API but would need to have a reason to request access to the documentation.
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
September 04, 2018 03:30PM
PolarView POI API and data format is open, and documentation has been posted online (I'll provide links if there is interest). Anyone can build a POI database and upload it for display in PolarView. As such, technically, you are welcome to create and use your own POI data.

On the other hand, the AC data is licensed per client product to a specific business or entity. That is to say, normally if you obtain a license to use AC data, you would need to do so within your own product. If you are able to obtain a license such that it allows you to convert the AC data and submit it to a 3rd party product, you should be able to use it with any application including PolarView.

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Polar Navy Support
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
September 05, 2018 05:02PM
I'd love links for the POI, I already poked at the sqllite3 DB but everything besides the lat/long is not human readable. I'll reach out and see what they say. I wonder if anyone happens to have the last updated version of the POI.
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
September 05, 2018 05:24PM
POI data is uploaded into PolarView in XML format. Here are the links:
[www.polarnavy.com]
[www.polarnavy.com]

By licensing agreement POI that were provided to PolarView users by ActiveCaptain cannot be shared or moved from one computer to another. So, even if someone has a copy (a number of users do), it can't be transferred either legally or technically.

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Polar Navy Support



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2018 01:34AM by Polar Navy Support.
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
September 06, 2018 01:59PM
Thanks, it looks like the second link doesn't work.

Also it seems like squidd.io is getting pretty good traction as a open alternative and has ver liberal Creative Commons liscensing for their data so that might be a really nice thing to integrate. Willing to take a first stab at that if I can get that example schema
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
September 07, 2018 01:39AM
Fixed the link, thanks.

squidd.io seems interesting. I was not able to find a reference to the POI API, however. That said, provided they have one and access is permitted by 3rd party users - it should be possible to build a direct download into PolarView.

If you have a link to their POI description - please let me know.

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Polar Navy Support
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
September 07, 2018 01:03PM
I've contacted squidd.io about possibility of integrating their data - will report here if there is a reply from them.

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Polar Navy Support
Re: ActiveCaptain is being discontinued
September 28, 2018 12:25PM
Update - squidd.io initial integration has been release in PolarView 3.0.6

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Polar Navy Support



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2018 02:54PM by Polar Navy Support.
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